People who are defending kiting tanks don't probably play unh or frost mage.The amount of kiting required from the tank makes DnD window useless as the frost mage leggo. I switched from blood to unh after playing blood for 2 expansions for 2 main reasons. 1st being that our healing is not proporcional to the damage taken as we feel like paper and 2nd because there's a lot of trash you can no longer stun/interrupt.I don't like VDH play style, so I would rather go deeps as unholy, the only spec that actually works this expansion.
looking at 15 and above after the first season is an irrelevant metric, you should try to take a look at 20+ for season 2 and 25+ for season 4 instead which are comparable to an early expac 15
I am not world top 100 tank but I have been tanking for good 17 years in many mmos. Let me start by saying i do dislike the kitting meta as well.However, I do understand kiting have place in WoW, it should be mechanic on some packs and some bosses. I have blood DK , Paladin, DH as a tank.I agree that due to infinite scaling of Mythic +, you are left with 2 options 1) Allow tanks to Kite to survive in higher Mythics + because at some point the damage is just too much. Question is what level is too much? I think until the Meta achievement +15 most things should be tankable in some way or another. (Most but not all) 2)Make anti kite mechanics such as if the top person in threat is x yards away from the NPC, NPC will pull out magical desert eagle and shoot the nearest target to head for his normal melee damage. Which would mean Mythic + would became hard capped way earlier to what is possible currently.Now, I also agree that current tank balance is just awful. First off, Demon Hunter is way too tanky, the nonstop available strong defensives, elysium degree with conduit that hit second time for insane damage, jumps and easy kitting, mass grip, mass silence, passive resistance to magic and increasing damage to most meta damage dealers by 5%, cheat death talent which COMBINES with the Al'ar Trinket, giving 2 cheats deaths and to top it all out with vials to clear necrotic and bleed stacks because everyone is Kyrian all just add to their insane kit. Damage, Utility, Speed. So what can blizzard do?I have no idea. Buffing other tanks to DH level would require a lot of time and overhaul of some tanks. Sure monks, warriors could be bought up easily, while paladin needs either more mobility or more tankiness because they plop even with shield. As for DK? I think thats most problematic class to balance. Right now we need more armor, more health, more damage. Wraith walk or grip of the dead baseline would also fix the kitting issues and boneshield should either fall slower or be easier to get or hell be even passive. However the moment you buff DKs too much they became one man army not giving a damn and not needing healer. Still the current state is just pitiful and so many times I said to myself in M+ or Raid, If I was DH this would not happened. Still I love my DK but I seen lots of people reroll or leave the game. I want other tanks buffed because tanks are already stressed to know routes, prides, the toxicity and everything that's their responsibility these days are making players push away from tanking classes, the wait lines for tanks are getting insane as well. Tanking is currently the hardest it ever been and the kite meta doesn't help instead it pushes away most casual tanks.
I hate this current meta of kiting the hell out of every single pack in M+.
Well ^&*!, nerfs incoming...
Yeh. I personally just want better kiting options as a prot pally. I get why VDH is so good in M+ but as a Paladin I have one slow and it doesn't even work on the mobs most likely to one shot me. It also feels bad when your Mastery is tied to standing your ground but your also being forced to use it like a tar trap every other pull. Replace Redoubt talent with a slow on Avenging Shield or Shield of the Righteous so we have an additional kiting tool.
This, VDH is not even OP, yhea we have a better time than other tanks, but we are far from what a warrior was in BFA, other classes need buffsMonks and druids are doing ok. especially because they have a passive mitigation and a lot of ways to kite. i hate that people want nefs to a class because its performing better than the other
Really not looking forward to the inevitable nerfs that's incoming. I really like my VDH and I don't feel all that tanky either. I play casually and haven't even completed a +10 yet, but I feel like the nerfs will hit people who play casually the hardest, top-tier players will adapt or just switch to the new meta—I don't have that luxury, unfortunately.
The whole article glosses over the fact that most guilds used vengeance DH to progress the raid and a lot of top raiders are strong mythic+ players. So the top tank at the moment will be the one that is most geared, it also fails to mention the fact the scaling issues with vengeance, agility not correlating very strongly with survivability, most tanks gain survivability with secondary and primary stats most specifically Brewmaster which gains stagger% with agility. It also lacks mention of the fact that vengeance damage is front loaded, so kiting does not feel bad. Lastly I think its ability to deal with mistakes is so much better for example Brewmaster making a mistake (which is much easier to make than vengeance, double tapping purify comes to mind) usually results in death and can very quickly result in wipes and massive time loss. Vengeance has access to a cheat death and very simplistic rotation with much room for error. I believe the other tanks will very quickly start out scaling Vengeance with the exception of blood DK which really does need some love.As a side note to say "overwhelming number of cooldowns" when in reality it has access to 3 cooldowns being meta, brand and devastation. Demon spikes is not a cooldown and is used as part of the rotation of demon hunter it is like saying purifying brew or shield of the righteous is a cooldown. When you look at blood DK which has a absolutely absurd amount of cooldowns its quality not quantity.
I think they should add to the flavor of tanks. Paladins should have to use a combination of righteous and word to tank and stand their ground since low mobility. Protection war should be able to stand their ground by deflection and cc. By a slow kiting nothing crazy, just a stun and slow that allows for just a bit of movement to reposition. BDk should be able to stand there and heal and bring the enemies back to them, they should have a larger health pool if they gonna feel so squishy. Guardians should be able to maul enemies wearing them down to reduce the dmg they do and to overpower the mobs making them attack less and cast slower out of fear.Monks should be the true kiters but a able to dodge and avoid dmg along with staggers.Then demonhunters should have to do the second most kitting at time where they can't go into demon form. The demon form should be like a channel where they transform and they can only hold it for a moment before it overcomes them and have to drop out and then they move around.
They also added the BFA power (Revel in Pain) that give a shield after First Fiery Brand gone as base spell which render the 40% dmg reduc + Shield quite strong
I'm casual and only doing M6 and it does require a lot of new movement as a tank, even a prot pal. Sanguine in Sanguine Depths was simply not fun last night... there are so many area mechanics going on in the gauntlet and that boss... it's just ridiculous. I wasn't plussed to do more m+ for the week haha. The big issue is: it *needs* to be *fun*. If always running around every pack in every dungeon is what is "fun" now, Im not sure it will hold my attention. I like to approach fights with a more stable maneuvering pattern where I *feel* like a tank. Not a mage with a shield. I also like to heal others, bubble others, and now what - I'm supposed to do that while running around like a chicken with my head cutoff - while trying not to expose my backside for the bonus damage? Yikes.To date I have been leaning hard on my healer and still approaching most fights as a facetank, slow maneuver - but with my health suddenly taking 90% hits out of the blue, it gets pretty rough when my active mitigation is not up and I have to try to do sub-optimal spells just to generate holy power for a heal... sigh. I understand I won't be able to get M10 and up with this plan. It's a very different game than BfA, but doesn't feel "better" to me yet.
Someone tricked people DH tanks are good and now LFG is full of paper tanks dying from 2 hits when trying to actually tank and not run away from the mobs. such a wipefest
I’d argue the rise of vengeance is due to havoc been shockingly back (without some significant gear investment). Only having 2 specs kind of forces you into vengeance to still get groups for content. I was originally vengeance and switch havoc, however switching back now it does feel like it’s in a good place overall. I regret not going kyrian (venth is ok, and single target it’s nice but deffo notice the drop on AoE packs), but other than that it feels smooth (more so than my prot pally)
In the last 3 expansions every tank had a point they were "meta" for something, except Prot Paladin. Unless we count Rextroy exploits and being a pvp nuisance. But for raid / m+, read: actual tanking every tank had their moment of spotlight, just Paladin had none. Shadowlands they entered again with "high damage low survivability" profile which makes them useless in high-end content. Thanks Blizzard.