Comentários

Comentado por Cobblers

As a Holy Paladin this is one of the best trinkets around. The intellect is the main goto stat that you should be looking towards stacking and considering all but the easiest content requires you to be spamming then the stacking spirit buff should be up 100% of the time.

However, at the time of writing this the cost to buy the mats needed to get one of these is quite expensive.

I would anticipate seeing a card like this fetching around the 20k mark on the AH.

Comentado por 177875

Summary:
I think they could go for more. On average completing one deck will cost over 20k; the best possible price, the very minimum from mats if you defied statistical odds and got the 8 cards you needed in a row, is about 15.2k. I would personally price them at 25k until herb prices fall by about 50%.

Details:
On my server (yes it of course varies server to server) Twilight Jasmine and Whiptail are consistently priced at about 10g each. The other lower quality Cata herbs go for at least 5-6g each and have half the pigment/ink yield as Whiptail and Twilight Jasmine. Volatile Life seems to vary but lately is usually right around 9-11g. By my math it takes about 8 stacks of Whiptail or Twilight Jasmine (trading the lower ink in for Inferno Ink in Dalaran) or 16 stacks of the other lower quality herbs (again, trading ink in to make Inferno Ink), plus 30 volatile life to make 1 random card. I get that 8/16 stack result assuming from my own personal data from several thousand mills that you get, on average, about 6 lower inks per 20 high quality herbs and about 1 Inferno ink per 20 high quality herbs (or, if you're using lower quality Cata herbs, 3 lower quality inks per 20 herbs and half an Inferno Ink). My data seems to match WoWHeads (see, e.g., this link and this link).

So...

8 stacks of higher quality herbs = 10g each x 20 herbs per stack = 200/stack x 8 stacks = 1600g + (30 volatile life x10g each = 300g) so 1900g per card.

Similarly, 16 stacks of lower quality herbs = 5g x20 herbs per stack = 100g x 16 stacks = 1600g + (30 volatile life x10g each = 300g) so again, about 1900g per card.

It takes 8 cards, Ace through Eight of the same suit, to make 1 deck. That means that making 1 deck, even if you got all 8 cards you needed on the first 8 tries, would cost 15200g.

However, it's very very very unlikely that you would make 8 cards and get the 8 you needed. You're much more likely to get cards in other random suits, or even to get duplicates of what you already have in the suit of the deck you want.

Finally, even assuming that a given scribe can afford to invest, say, 60k to have a chance to make all 4 decks that scribe is unlikely to actually make 4 decks. He or she is more likely to instead complete a deck or two and have a host of duplicates. My friend has spend 70k using the same numbers I quoted above as the max price he'd pay for herbs and has only completed 1 deck - he has double, triples, even quadruples of many other cards. I know a second scribe that has spent 90k and completed 3 decks (but not the main one he wanted yet) and is 3 cards away from completing the deck he was trying to make and has several duplicates and triplicates of other deck cards (but still several cards away from making any more decks yet). So in other words, every Scribe making decks to use or sell takes a large risk that he or she won't finish the deck needed for a long time, requiring substantial additional investment (e.g. an additional 10-30k).

For me, the moral of this story is that since it costs at a minimum 15.2k worth of mats to make a deck, and it takes a very long time to make a deck since 15.2k worth of Inscription crafting mats don't usually appear in your hands overnight, 20k is the minimum price I expect these to go for. Scribes have to invest too much time, resources, and absorb too much risk for 20k to be the normal price. I think 25k-30k is more likely. But, that's a lot of gold. So even if they are worth 30k they could well end up at 25k just based on the fact that 30k is a pretty huge amount of gold for most players.

EDIT: As oberondreaming explained, and as I noted below: "Buying low herbs at 5g a stack is going to be more efficient, in the long run, than buying high herbs at 10g a stack." His/her post says it all below.

Comentado por 752804

A warning to druids, I just redeemed mine today and it looks like even the initial cast of our hots doesn't stack it. I didn't expect ticks to proc it but I assumed the initial cast would. After several minutes of testing, I never gained a stack from the initial cast of Rejuv, Lifebloom, or Wild Growth. I did gain stacks from Swiftmend, Nourish, Regrowth and Healing Touch.
With my current gear, a full stack is 230 casting mp5, so there's quite a penalty to it falling off. I'm sure it's still an excellent trinket, certainly better than what I had, but I'm a little disappointed since I figured just rolling Lifebloom on the tank between pulls would roll it too.

I make an account to post this and 4 days later they fix it. It is now stacking with hot ticks and up 100%, rolling between pulls with lifebloom on the tank. Thanks Blizz.

Comentado por Tenchinator

Thanks for the (slightly counterintuitive) analysis. It made me take a look at the efficiency from a different point of view, namely that of the amount of time you save by milling higher-end herbs.

The problem with milling, as with prospecting, is that you cannot automate it. Buying Whiptail at 2x the price of Cinderbloom (which is where the market seems to be settling) you get 20% fewer inks per gold spent, but you get 60% more inks per time spent milling, and you spend less time creating inks as well, since you get 2x the number of Burning Embers per stack of herbs. This made me wonder whether milling low-level herbs might take so much more time that it's not worth it.

Analysis below...

Cinderbloom (and other low-level herbs)

1 stack of cinderbloom = 10 ashen + 1 burning pigments
                                  = 5 blackfallow + 0.5 inferno ink
                                  = 1 inferno ink

So you need to mill 10 stacks of Cinderbloom to yield one Darkmoon card,
i.e. you need to mill 40 times
      and craft 50 + 5 = 55 inks

Crafting each ink takes 2 seconds, that's easy. But milling is a little tricker. Each milling takes 1 second, plus you need to wait for the pigments to be looted before you can mill again. Depending on how quick you are, I think it's reasonable to assume 2 seconds per each milling.

Thus, creating a darkmoon card from Cinderbloom takes roughly 2*40 + 2*55 = 190 seconds worth of milling/crafting. (80 seconds of which, don't forget, you cannot be AFK during.)

Whiptail (and other high-level herbs)

1 stack of Whiptail = 12 ashen + 2 burning pigments
                                  = 6 blackfallow + 1 inferno ink
                                  = 1.6 inferno ink

So you need to mill 6.25 stacks of Whiptail to yield one Darkmoon card,
i.e. you need to mill 25 times
      and craft 37.5 + 6.25 = 43.5 inks

Thus, creating a darkmoon card from Whiptail takes roughly 2*25 + 2*43.5 = 137 seconds worth of milling/crafting. (50 seconds of which, don't forget, you cannot be AFK during.)

So you save nearly a minute per card by milling high-end herbs. What about the price though?

Assuming 100g per stack of Cinderbloom, and 200g per stack of Whiptail, that's

      1000g vs. 1250g,

or, 250g more you spend per card to save roughly 60 seconds.

So that settles it for me. :) I don't know about you guys, but nothing I do in WOW is worth 250g per minute. Herb prices would have to drop to near zero to make milling high-end herbs worth it.

Comentado por staron

I do not understand why they are so hard to make, after all at the end you get a 359 ilevel item, just as you would from getting exalted with a faction or from making the alchemist's stone. Even if you halve its cost in mats, even then it is too expensive/hard to get for what it is.

Comentado por TylerGamer84

This seems to have skyrocketed in price on my realm since the tragedy in Japan. Kinda sickens me. And no it's not because I want one. I have no use for it.

Comentado por mewmewface

i saw a deck at the a/h for 10,600 with a buyout of 11500. i currently had 12 on my bank toon so i just bid on it. upon loggign in later, i found out that i lost the bid :(

i noticed i had ace of waves and five of waves..so i just bought the other cards for some 700g , the others 1500 or 1700 and i saved about 3k gold and still had my tsunami card.

so what i think is that you should just complete this slowly..sometimes scribes sell the cards kinda cheap (like 500g) so just buy that and keep it until you can complete it. in the meantime..do quests and stuff..farm..earn gold :)

Comentado por 129969

The impression that the multiple item listing on Wowhead gives (to me at least) is that you only need 7 of the 8 cards to combine for a deck.

When a guildy pointed that out to me I was confused as that doesn't fit with the tooltip but rather happy. Having got 7 of the 8 (missing the 2 so that seems to be what the second item in the list is) I tried to combine and failed, being told "Missing reagent: Two of Waves".

As Wowhead appears to suggest that you only need 7 cards I thought it worth pointing out that you don't, you need all 8.
Unless I'm mistaken and something odd's happening. Or unless the guildy who told me and I are both looking at the list and seeing something other than what's intended.

Comentado por 858445

do you have to wait for the darkmoon fair to come to do the quest?

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