Comentários

Comentado por 202926

It seems like it'd be pretty sweet, but when it says "struck by a melee attack", does that mean ONLY physically taking damage, or blocking + parrying + taking damage?

What I'm basically getting at is, does this trinket lose value as you gain a higher amount of avoidance or not?

Comentado por paxundae

Anyone know if this proc's for 30 stam a stack for druids in bear form (taking the +25% stam into account)?

Comentado por Ortus

How can you have the trinket if it drops off a boss (Putricide) that isn't available yet?

By having it on the PTR?

I'm not sure why people downvoted what was probably correct information.

Edit: the trinket was indeed available on the PTR when Putricide was being tested, so there you go.

Comentado por 456926

I think this isn't just an increasing health pool, you will get 24 stamina filled, it's like a 60% chance on being melee hit of self-healing 240 hp, plus the max health increase, till you get 10 stacks. May not sound like much, but considering the actual hit gave you that, it's like: take 5k hit but get 240 back (a bit more with kings and a lot more being a bear (around 360?)).

It wouldn't be that bad to loose the buff once in a while, you would get the self-healing behavior again.

OTOH, if your hp is not full, you will take a hit from the buff going away, but 10 seconds without proc'ing should indicate that you are not being hit that often and you are probably with full health (unless magically hit).

Comentado por 46530

What I'm interesting in is how the proc works. Assume each stack adds 100HP. A tank has current HP 1000/1000. What happens when the trinket procs? He goes to 1100/1100 or he stays at 1000/1100?

Models the proc could use: Only affects max HP, keeps percentage HP the same or adds/removes HP.

What if he is at 500/1000. Does he go to 500/1100, 550/1000 or 600/1000?

A similar question arises when the stacks fall off. You are at 550/1100. Do you end up at 450/1000, 500/1000 or 550/1000?

Comentado por 499529

As earlier stated, this trinket will be most valuable for druid tanks because of their higher dependence on armor and stamina due to a lack of a block or parry. For a bear, who in icc only has around a 27-30% avoidance chance with highly increased stamina and armor effects http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=9634 http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=16931 http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=24894 http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33856, this trinket is marvelous.

Comentado por 482098

When you agree with a post that does some theory craft, or up-rate it, please make sure you really understand the math and have confirmed it. Otherwise false information will spread.

The calculation given by Agent is good only for a quick estimation (60% avoidance does not mean that every 5 swings land 2 times). Unfortunately it is off by quite a bit compared to the real values:

chance of dropping the stack with 60% avoidance =
0.4^5
+ 5*0.4^4*0.6*0.6
+ 10*0.4^3*0.6^2*0.6^2
+ 10*0.4^2*0.6^3*0.6^3
+ 5*0.4*0.6^4*0.6^4
+ 0.6^5*0.6^5
= 25.4%

chance of dropping the stack with 40% avoidance =
0.4^5
+ 5*0.4^4*0.6*0.4
+ 10*0.4^3*0.6^2*0.4^2
+ 10*0.4^2*0.6^3*0.4^3
+ 5*0.4*0.6^4*0.4^4
+ 0.6^5*0.4^5
= 10.7%

Now, what does it mean to have a 25.4% chance of dropping the stack? It means the uptime of full stack is only 5.3%! Surprising it is. Here's why:

The number of stacks on you in a 10 second window is a Markov chain. For 25.4% dropping probability, the transition matrix P is:

.254 .746 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .746 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .746 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .746 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746 .000 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746 .000 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746 .000 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746 .000
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746
.254 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .000 .746

The stationary probability distribution d is (by solving the linear system dP = d):

0.254 0.189 0.141 0.106 0.079 0.059 0.044 0.033 0.024 0.018 0.053

So, outside ICC, with you constantly tanking the boss, you will have

0 stack 25.4% of the time
1 stacks 18.9% of the time
2 stacks 14.1% of the time
3 stacks 10.6% of the time
4 stacks 7.9% of the time
5 stacks 5.9% of the time
6 stacks 4.4% of the time
7 stacks 3.3% of the time
8 stacks 2.4% of the time
9 stacks 1.8% of the time
10 stacks ONLY 5.3% of the time!

In an ICC raid situation, assuming the buff dropping chance is down to 10.7, the result is:

0.107 0.096 0.085 0.076 0.068 0.061 0.054 0.048 0.043 0.039 0.323

interpreted as

0 stack 10.7% of the time
1 stacks 9.6% of the time
2 stacks 8.5% of the time
3 stacks 7.6% of the time
4 stacks 6.8% of the time
5 stacks 6.1% of the time
6 stacks 5.4% of the time
7 stacks 4.8% of the time
8 stacks 4.3% of the time
9 stacks 3.9% of the time
10 stacks 32.3% of the time

Which is a lot better, but 32.3% of full stack uptime is still AWFUL.

The calculation assumes you tank a single boss. The uptime will be almost 100% if you tank multiple adds though.

CONCLUSION: 1. This trinket is very bad in terms of its stacking stamina buff, considering it is level 251 (I am not sure how valuable 1890 armor is for a tank though). 2. Simple estimation and numbers can be deceptive.

Comentado por Vinkinglord

the only problem with this trinket is that dodge/block/parry/shields will not count toward to proc of the trinket, the damage has to be unmitigated. do not get me wrong great trinket but is has its down side as-well. (yes i do have this trinket)

Comentado por 267186

Are people to dumb to realize that healers overheal on boss fights? Even if the stack did drop off, any heal deficits created while the trinket stacked again would quickly be filled by overheals.

Comentado por joshiki

If you gear for EH on Saurfang you don't even deserve to roll on this trinket. :(

im probably gonna sound like a major noob here but what does EH stand for?

Comentado por 62976

So i finally get this thing today and started testing it.
Even when you tank boss all the time without any breaks it happens that stack just drop. Was tanking Taldaram with it, after 40 sec or so of fight reached 6 stacks then after "unlucky" string of rng or dodges it drop. After that stacked it up to 8 or something then it dropped again... So you can forget about keeping it up by eating morowgar bone storm for example. Only way to be quite sure to keep it up is to aggro at least 2 mobs.

And btw if you OT Lana'thel this thing is useless coz it doesnt proc from mirror dmg.

I hope your feelings for this baby has changed since you saw the damage output from Rot/Fester/Putri 25man. This baby will sit nicely next to one of my stamina trinkets.

Dmg on rotface? I wasnt impressed seeing it. And btw you will have like 80% chance that stack will drop during each vomit... now feel free to count whats ur chance to see it stacked to 10.
On festergut? 2nd tank taunts after 8 stack of debuff on 1st tank - about the same time there will be 3 stacks of inhale on boss so you would like it to be rdy for nasty hits. It wont be ready trust me... stacking it up to 10 with decent avoidance takes around 60 sec...
Didnt try putricide yet but i can bet any amount of gold that uptime there would suck bigtime. And in 3rd phase another taunting job so forget about stacking it higher than 5.
So as i said mixed feelings .... veeeeery mixed.

Comentado por 146010

Got this trinket last night. Mixed feelings on it so far.

On the one hand - the armor is *fantastic*. It provides a lot of raw melee-based mitigation (about 1.5% for my DK), and since I have bladed armor I even get a little AP from it. Since I'm frost, I double dip into this armor for Unbreakable Armor, making a lackluster cooldown a little bit stronger. On melee-oriented fights, this blows my old trinket (the black heart) clear out of the water, just by virtue of the armor alone.

On the other hand - The proc is unreliable. I've only gotten to test it on the blood princes and blood queen so far. On the former, I was tanking Taldaram. Unfortunately during a high avoidance streak, or when he began channelling a flame orb, my stacks typically ended up falling off completely. They never went above 6. On the blood queen, as the OT it did absolutely nothing for me, as blood mirror is not considered to be physical damage.

So, while it's surely an upgrade for me, I'd advise any tanks looking at this trinket to keep another one handy for fights where it just isn't going to proc reliably. That is, of course, if you require the extra raw stam for your job.

Edit - Even though the proc is unreliable, on fights where it can proc, it should have at least a few stacks up at any given time. So, those stacks coupled with the armor make it FANTASTIC for your EH. The only downside is the rampup and unreliability.

Edit 2 - Someone's on a downrating frenzy eh? Anyone daring to say 'armor is a good stat' is downrated? Use your brains, guys...really.

Comentado por 527242

Yes this trinket is very nice for bears, NO the armour does not get ANY multiplication other than the 2% armour metagem most tanks have.
but hey, every 24 stamina in a full raid is 240*1.25*1.1*1.06*1.02*1.1(BoK)=392HP (and change) so though it isn't up all the time, it builds faster on us bears due to low avoidance and does more. Will be one happy bear with a trinky like this.

Comentado por 130170

I'm currently siting around 33k armor on my pally. At this value its around 1.2% dmg reduction.

Comentado por 252066

I have it on my T10 war tank and i barely get 3 or 4 stamina stacks from that trinket.

Imo is not that optimal for prot warriors cuz of avoidence.

Comentado por Gershuun

The only boss fight that I use this on is Lich King, where you are able to tank the boss and 2-4 Drudge Ghouls at the same time for a good portion of the fight. For other fights I tend to re-equip my Satrina's Impeding Scarab.

Comentado por Travisty

Acquired this last night. Already love it.

Yes it is practically useless on fights like Deathwhisper, but you can not compare this to the melee-heavy mechanics of the ICC bosses (why else is armor such a sought-after tank stat now?). Putricide, Festergut, Rotface (if you're MT), Saurfang, Marrowgar, Lana'Thel, etc? This thing several times has stacked to 10 times even in Halls of Reflection. Extra 2400+ health in most ICC boss fights, plus a permanent ~2000 armor? Yes please. I now use this with CSK. Great combo for a MT in my opinion.

Edit: Now as much as I like it, I realize that switching it out for some fights with something like Impending Scarab/Juggernaut's Vitality from TotC is certainly viable, and probably better to do, in some fights. But for those who don't have that trinket (like me), as mentioned above, I use CSK (constant +228 stam) w/ the Organ, and am very satisfied with it. Do not make the mistake of writing off Armor as a substandard or secondary stat if you're tanking ICC (frankly, I don't see how a serious tank ever would). The larger your Effective Health (armor + stam before mitigation) pool, the better.

Comentado por 535702

Looks like a kidney to me...

Comentado por 252059

My biggest gripe with this trinket is that it gives you stamina, without giving you actual stamina people can actually see.

If I want to claim to have 40k hp unbuffed, I have to replace this one with one my ilvl 200 +sta trinkets (haven't gotten the battlemaster one yet).

So I'm either a "lol ilvl 200 trinket noob!" or having to explain that "I am 39k hp unbuffed but I have this trinket that when it procs on melee hits I have, oh it seems you've put me on /ignore".

For better or for worse, 80% of people judge a tank on their health pool.

I'd much rather this trinket gave static stamina and gave stacking armor per hit.

Comentado por Travisty

after having this for a little while, I've noticed this important little fact that I've seen no one mention yet (could have missed it):

The proc from this trinket refreshes, much like the tankadin's 2/2 talent Guarded by the Light (granted, the refresh rate isn't 100%).

For example, in an ICC mob pull (which almost ALL consist of several melee hitters), if you are physically hit a number of times, and your proc from Unidentifiable Organ gets to say 3 stacks, that 10 second timer on the buff counts down, but if more melee attacks hit you and it procs again, you will now have 4 stacks at a refreshed timer of 10 secs (in this example). This is true for each melee hit that procs the trinket, as long as the hit that procs it happens while the buff is still up. This is true for however many stacks you have, be it 1-10. On mob packs in 25-man ICC like the 2 aboms (melee), 700 geists (exaggeration, but melee), 2 scientists and 2 pustulating horrors (melee; yes our guild pulls them all at once. Doesn't yours?) before entering Plagueworks, I find the proc from UI reaches 10 and stays like that throughout most of that fight. This happened last night.

So, again, JUST to reiterate, if you have 1 stack and the proc is still up, but only has 2 seconds left, you could get hit again, it can proc, climb to 2 stacks, and the timer refreshes to 10 seconds. This can keep happening until 10 (not to mention keep refreshing at 10), or until there aren't enough melee hits to keep it up (which I'm not denying happens, mind you).

As for boss fights, even if the proc has trouble staying up (which it certainly does in certain situations), you have 1890 base armor alone from this trinket (2180 from heroic version). I think all we decent tanks can agree that overlooking a permanent armor increase such as that is probably a bit hasty and, well, stupid. Anyone who has tanked Fester*!@# knows this.

Comentado por 561260

Thank you for that post. Two notes, if a Death Knight or Feral tank is at 10 stacks, wishes to maintain the stacks, and is at full health, it would not be totally insane to turn their back for a few seconds out of every 10 to up the chance of resetting the stacks.

This works less well for warriors and paladins on account of their shields, but for a Death Knight or a Bear tank all that turning the back does is reduce the chance to dodge/parry to 0 (and obviously you can't build threat with your back turned, but in the middle of a fight that's hardly ever an issue). Also obvious, if not dodging or parrying an attack for a few choice seconds could kill you then that probably isn't worth the additional 3k health pool at that point in the fight.

Second, as many have noted the armor is hugely beneficial, the stacking stam is frosting. The amount of additional physical damage ignored with 1800 armor is 3-4% depending on how much armor the tank has. With the heroic version 2128 armor reduces physical incoming damage by 3.5 - 4.5%. Compare that to the amount of stamina required to take the survive the same amount of physical damage which is about 150-200 stamina for 3-4% or 175 - 225 stamina for the 3.5-4.5%.

((note, these armor calculations used values determined by dividing the new physical damage taken by the old physical damage taken, pre-trinket. The additional percentage of physical damage ignored will be more like 1 - 1.5%, but since a geared tank is already ignoring around 66% of physical damage, going from 66% to 67% decreases the damage taken by about 3%. That's the strength of effective health calculations.))

If a Death Knight or Feral tank equipped this trinket and did the back turn trick to keep up a full stack of the stam buff, the result would be a 7-9% reliable, maintained increase in effective health, which is unheard of for a single trinket. That would be comparable to a trinket with a set 350 - 450 stamina on it and nothing else (barring the stacks dropping). For main tanking standard physical damage fights, no other trinket comes close.

Comentado por 548002

Armor has got to be one of the most underrated stats in-game. I think it's because of those "instant gratification" types who do nothing but stack 30-stam gems and use any higher item level they see (you know the type...or those new-to-80s who are using gear not matching their spec because it's the "best they've seen so far"...translation: "OMG PURPLE"). When they equip gear like this they can't immediately see their larger health pool or watch their avoidance/mitigation percentages increase in their character tab.

That said, this armor IS fantastic and I'll up my http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47735 to this as soon as I win a roll on it. The stamina proc is just a perk and I'll take it over the dodge boost.

Comentado por 434891

This trinket is badarse for tanking trashmobs and chainpulling anywhere.
Get HP'd enough tanks and spellpower'd enough healers and you'll be killing 2 trash packs at a time. That's what this trinket is good for - faster trash. And with faster trash, everyone is happy. ^_^

Comentado por 428632

I have yet to see this trinket stack to 10, even when I'm main tanking a boss. I prefer glyph of indomitabilty for physical dmg fights and juggernaut's vitality for magic damage fights.

Comentado por 354667

What could this organ be? hmmm...

Comentado por 285102

This is a situationally useful trinket and will probably be used on trash or if tanking adds. Normally you would never see the full ten stacks and would only benefit from the armor, thus on magic damage fights, stick to passive stamina trinkets.
When the encounter calls for physical mitigation, use this and or glyph of indomitability for maximum armour (like the on use dodge of the glyph trinket, the stacking stamina is a bonus, not the reason to take it).

One fight where I have seen it stack to ten is on Valithria, when the adds were not dying quickly enough. While this is more a sign of dps not being strong enough, the added stamina was a good bonus to give me more survivability as the dps regained their focus.

At the very least, you will probably use this alot when tanking heroics while pulling entire rooms at a time.
The armour and added health will make frost emblem farming more of a breeze than it is already.

Comentado por 239565

This trinket is more suited to a warrior or paladin tank. On my DK my avoidance is so high that I rarely see it go higher than 4 stacks before dropping off. It's one of the few trinkets that gets worse as your gear improves. The proc was an interesting idea, but I fail to see why they added a 60% chance, rather than a 100% chance which would make attaining and maintaining 10 stacks more plausible. I mean if you compare the 264 melee badge trinket, it's not like they gave the stipulation that there's a 60% chance on dealing damage to gain attack power. No reason to equip this trinket if you have a JV or Sindragosa's Flawless Fang.

Comentado por 345911

Egh... This trinket RARELY stays stacked enough to make it better than the Brewfest trinket... Although the armor is very nice =) Personally I would rather use Satrina's Impeding Scarab...

Comentado por 617499

My ICC-10 geared tank with some BS crafted gear with Dev Aura up is already very close to 70% softcap for Armour, so what does this trinket actually give you when you're so close to armour softcap, think I will stay with my +170 Sta trinket, any thoughts

Comentado por bRipRAWR

Awesome item for maintanks. Lucky if u get it since i havent got it even once ;S

Comentado por Lindentree

It looks from wowhead's data mining that this will have all its armor removed come Cataclysm, which will change it from awesome into garbage. A sad day for us all.

EDIT: Its armor has been restored!

Comentado por 658096

All this number crunching is great in theory, but it doesn't take into account the number of bosses that cast in ICC. Bosses that cast on a regular basis (Marrowgar, LDW, Festergut, Rotface, PP, BPC, Sindy, LK), reduce the uptime of the stamina buff DRASTICALLY.

The armor is great, and I'm not trying to ignore that, I'm just saying from personal experience... the realistic chance of getting more than 3 stacks of the buff is ~0% for the vast majority of ICC bosses.

Comentado por 665425

i think you guys are missing the point its highly useful for pally tanks with their healing plus this isnt suppose to be all that cuz theirs a heroic form to this

Comentado por 153083

No one has mentioned that this trinket is a standard for tanks.
It sits right next to their Corroded Skeleton Key.

Comentado por 243202

This trinket has no passive stats on live, since the armor nerf. In fact, it is now very, very bad. I will be using WFS for tanking now.

Comentado por 437673

A great trinket at 80 and a still very good one at 85 since it seems the itemization budget for armor on 85 gear increased dramatically but the level 80 armor trinkets still use the old formula. A nerf seems inevitable, but for now I'm still using it.

Comentado por 187408

i would actually go as far as saying this both on heroic and normal is better than Coração do Trovão by far. both considering the passive armor and the on use/active effect

Comentado por 41368

Today with patch 4.0.6 the Bonus Armor for this was dropped from 1890 to 541.

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