Comentários

Comentado por Backmask

10% Proc rate on this trinket according to the spell details.
This can STACK with Grim Toll or Mjolnir Runestone. It wouldn't be a very good combination of trinkets but it's possible. : )

Comentado por 161675

Yeah, you're missing the part where it comes from a 5 man heroic.

Well, it might be easier to get than the Mjolnir Runestone or Grim Toll, but it's definately not as good as either of those trinkets. In addition to having less Armor Pen on the proc, it also states that it only procs on *crits* where both Runestone/Toll are regular chance on hit. This looks like one of those "if you absolutely have nothing better" trinkets. Like for example if you were replacing a blue trinket with this.

Comentado por 95733

This is meant to be a upgrade for people who cant get Grim Toll or the Runestone.

Doesnt mean it's crap.

Comentado por Liquoid

With 4.0.1 and removal of ArP from gear, this whole post has become obsolete
~~The internal cooldown on the trinket is not 45 seconds as usual. It is 30 seconds, according to dummy tests with Procodile analyzing the data.~~
Internal cooldown on NES is now 45 seconds as of build 10835.

MR's 665 ArP proc is worth 47.51% ArP, and its uptime is 10/45 seconds = 2/9
GT's 612 ArP proc is worth 43.72% ArP, and its uptime is 10/45 seconds = 2/9
~~NES's 452 ArP proc is worth 32.29% ArP and it's uptime is 10/30 seconds = 1/3~~
NES's 678 ArP proc is worth 48.44% ArP and it's uptime is 10/45 seconds = 2/9
I assumed that all 3 trinkets proc instantly as their CD is off, which is of course unapplicable in a game situation.
NES has 50% more uptime than either GT and MR, therefore to compare them, we can assume that their uptime is same, but NES's proc is 50% stronger. That comes to 1.5 * 32.29 = 48.44% ArP, which is better than both GT and MR by a substantial margin.
NES's proc is clearly better than either GM and MR.
In addition, NES has 12 more crit rating than MR, which makes it even more superior.

Conclusion

If you have either GT or MR, this is a straightforward upgrade for you. If you consider that the upgrade is too minor when compared to MR, you probably forgot that the ilvl difference between MR and NES is only 6, which is half of a tier.

Rogues/Ferals/Warriors:
ArP softcap with NES: 948
ArP softcap with NES+MR: 283
ArP softcap with NES+GT: 336
Warriors with 2pcT9:
ArP softcap with NES: 864
ArP softcap with NES+MR: 199
ArP softcap with NES+GT: 252

Rogues/Ferals/Warriors:
ArP softcap with NES: 722
ArP softcap with NES+MR: 57
ArP softcap with NES+GT: 110

Warriors with 2pcT9:
ArP softcap with NES: 638
ArP softcap with NES+MR: -27 (You've overcapped by 27)
ArP softcap with NES+GT: 26

Comentado por barbeque

If all the math here is giving you a headache, this is what you need to know as a hunter.

This is the best non-25 raid trinket you can get in the game as of now. No expertise/ excess hit/ haste crap. Just crit and armor penetration.

That is all.

Comentado por Nikixp

That trinket is the best alternative version of Mjolnir Runestone. If you were unlucky in Ulduar - like me ffs >.<

Comentado por 199513

Firstly, to all hunters out there to think this trinket isn't proccing, it is. The likelihood is if your Marksmanship, your seeing the Proc Image and thinking its just Rapid Killing, they have the same icon.

I came here looking for conformation as to whether this trinket actually averaged out to more Armor pen than Mjolnir Runestone, and found a load of down rated comments about how people have been rolled against.

Assuming a 50% crit chance, and roughly 1 attack of some sort per second, the runestone is likely to proc after around 3 seconds after the internal cooldown has finished. This means that for 10 out of 48 seconds, you will gain 665 armor pen. Averaging out to 138.5 armor pen.

Assuming the same stats, the scorpion is likely to proc, very roughly, 8 seconds after the internal cooldown has finished.
This means 678 armor pen for 10 out of 53 seconds, or 127.9 on average.

These are very roughly calculated figures I admit, but they give a good general idea, and I believe that the runestone, despite the lower item level, is the more valuable trinket.

Comentado por Kerghan

Got one recently and I'm noticing a huge difference in up time between this and Grim Toll's proc. NES is up far less. GT procs no later than 10 seconds into every fight if it's cooled, while NES doesn't even proc at all during some fights. I went through two waves in a row of the spirit mobs in Halls of Reflection without it proccing once. My crit is not lacking at all (~45 percent as a fury warrior, +5 percent on heroic strikes and slams from my set bonus). I'm getting the impression that both GT and MR are better choices than this trinket, regardless of the ilevel differences. The main benefit of NES over GT/MR is not the higher ilevel, but rather the fact that it's much easier to acquire.

Comentado por 67280

I have also recently replaced my Grim Toll with this thing and have noticed a way lower procrate then the Grim Toll. I have never received a Mjolnir Runestone but i am sure that the Runestone is still better then this due to the procrate.

I'm a fury warrior, and i am still using this trinket over Grim Toll because this gives crit instead of hit, and a bit more ArP when it does proc. I would not replace a Mjolnir Runestone with this if i had it.

Comentado por 1106

Wondering about the proc rate and ICD on this?

From the EJ Geeks

50 sec ICD, 10% proc rate

Comentado por Quinine

So i logged 2x 10mn sessions on the dummies, and i logged combatlogs.
Mjolnir seems so far better to me, because of the uptime.

Mjolnir : 21,3% uptime ---> 141,65 arp total ---> http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-a53s31b7z5jsdxvk/details/0/?s=119&e=683
NES : 16,4% uptime --->111,19 arp total ---> http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s936ah2i4ccs3n8z/details/0/?s=-9&e=540

The difference will lessen in raid because you got higher crit rate, but I think Mjolnir Runestone is superior, especially if you are a warrior or some other 2-handed class.

Comentado por 82422

Uptime on this is going to be completely dependent on your class.

For a druid with 60% crit and a .8 attack speed (not outside the realm of possibility), you're looking at a 6% chance per swing and just shy of two attacks per second (1.92), it should take on average about 11 hits (.94^11=.506) before it procs, or about 5.7 seconds. This yields 10 / 51 = 19.6% uptime. (Can anyone confirm whether dot tick crits can proc it?)

For an arms warrior with 45% crit and a 3.0 (hasted) attack speed, it's considerably less rosy. You have a 4.5% chance per swing and one attack per second. It takes 15 swings to break even here (.955^15=.501), which, for the warrior, takes 15 seconds. Assuming infinite rage, that's 10 / 60 = 16.75 uptime here, though that's modified somewhat by Overpower, Juggernaut, and 4pT9 or 4pT10.

(I should mention that I am an armchar statistician at absolute best (best?), so if anyone wants to nitpick please feel free.)

Is it worth it? More mathematically-savvy people than me seem to think so- the value of hitting the ArP cap for that portion of the time plus that of being able to itemize and gem for anything but static ArPen is frequently better than gemming for passive ArP. Spreadsheet it for yourself, though, if you want gospel.

Comentado por bismuth27

I'm a Fury Warrior and I got this recently and I have to say my first impression was very disappoiting on a dummy. On average it would proc like 3-4 times (more like 3 times) within 5 minutes.

Now I tried it out fully buffed in a raid. I have around 51% crit and I have to say I was positively suprised.
It's pretty decent actually, obviously not better than MR (which I don't) but I'm using it over GT.

Anyway still a very decent trinket for those who can't obtain MR/GT and very easy to farm. With good gear and fully buffed in a 25 man raid it's probably not too far behind MR. In a 10 man raid (depending on your buffs) there might be an obvious difference and of course in a 5 man run its proc rate will be very poor.

All in one, with a decent crit chance it's not as bad as many say.

Comentado por 255922

I just ran simulationcraft for my feral - mjolnir beats NES by 8 DPS.

NES is modeled with 50sec ICD and gets an uptime of 19%.
MRS gets an uptime of 22%

the simulator says i have some 62.7% crit raidbuffed

I think NES gets better the more crit you get as a previous poster posted nearly the same MRS uptime, but a lower NES uptime.

Comentado por 202770

tested it out with my Hunter on Koralon in 25VoA and ended up being a wrecking ball with 9.6k dps (8.5-9k constant then 4 killshot crits in a row) and topped the meters. with my current gear i could only hit around 87% armor penetration but my aimed shots were already hitting close to 11k and my steady shots were scratching 9k. can't wait to hit 100% with the new content gear.

tbh, i wish it had a longer up time and easier proc rate like MR, but despite not being so, it's still a damn good trinket. pair this with Death's Verdict along with T10/3.3 gear and you should be melting bosses to the ground.

happy raiding

Comentado por bismuth27

I have the feeling that I got buffed recently. It seems to proc more often than it used to. I don't know if it's just me though. I'm a furry warrior 40% crit unbuffed.

Comentado por 501579

Well, I'm a feral specced Druid and I can say that this trinket works wonders on Kitty druids. I don't know about other classes, but with the natural crit rates we have and 0.8 aspd I have seen mine proc almost once per min. Another point is the fact that compared to getting MR, getting this is quite easy. My advise? Go with a party of all guildmates or with people you know already have it, that way you won't have to see it wasted on a noob or worthless carry

Comentado por LusoChampion

I've been doing FoS heroic everyday since the release of the patch and i haven't seen this trinket drops a single time.... am I that unlucky or something is wrong.

Comentado por rehaili

from what i heard from some ppl be ready to see many holy pallys and restro druids to need it over you.

Comentado por Quaeras

After 15 straight days of running this with a stacked group, I finally had it drop.

The paladin tank rolled a 99.

In some bizarre show of mercy, I rolled 100.

Comentado por nimerod

I made a little test

17 minutes of dps on lvl 80 target dummy,fury warrior with 46% crit with rampage buff.
-17 procs
-1.05 procs/minute
-17%uptime
-50 seconds the media of proc cd.
a screenshot
http://www.wowhead.com/?screenshot=crop&3.50198.7c6fc09929ae8439

Comentado por Miranger

Dont hope to get this in a random pug you'll have the paladins and the healer and says his "offspec" needs it if they win. This is getting out of control and pathetic if ask me no way for a Main to Legitimately get this item unless he bugs his guild to static farm it.

Comentado por Mirri

WILL ALL YOU TANKS STOP NEEDING ON THIS TRINKET? LET THE FREAKIN DPS HAVE FIRST CHOICE! I DOUBT THE TANKS WHO NEED THIS WOULD BE HAPPY IF THE DPS ROLLED ON TANK RINGS/TRINKETS/CLOAKS ETC!

edit: i have seen this drop 7 times while doing the instance with my DPS warrior. everytime a tank ninjas it. guild members have also been complaining about tanks selecting need for it.

I think this is exactly why it's so hard to find a tank to farm random dungeons. Being a dual-specced feral druid, my guild needs me both for tanking and dpsing (depending on the number of tanks required for each encounter). And since I don't want to spend 15 minutes finding a tank, well, I register as a tank and get in a group in like 3 seconds.

Therefore, I can't see the reason why a tank shouldn't roll a need on this, all the more since it's a BiS for most classes until they've reached the arpen hardcap.

What bothers me more is :

1) People needing this when it doesn't fit their class (I've already seen Enh. Shamans rolling need on the trinket >.<)
2) People needing this when it doesn't fit their gear. Unless you're arpen softcapped, the scorpion is... Well, not really useless, but rather not-so-good. And I do have to say that I get rather annoyed when I see players who don't have an ounce of arpen on their stuff roll need on it.

Well, whatever, got it after some 3 weeks of farming the instance everyday, and it only dropped 3 times.What seems curious is that some people see it drop on nearly every run they do when others (like me, obviously :p) hardly see it drop at all.

Comentado por 368225

My recommendations would be stacking the group in a way that nobody can roll on it. I realized soon after losing it to a ret pally one time during my fruitless 20 runs.

Take only caster dps and people with the trinket already. If you can find a priest healer that's a bonus too.

I'm not going to spend months waiting on one trinket again, it's time to take the matter into my own hands.

Comentado por Banethir

1) People needing this when it doesn't fit their class (I've already seen Enh. Shamans rolling need on the trinket >.<)
2) People needing this when it doesn't fit their gear. Unless you're arpen softcapped, the scorpion is... Well, not really useless, but rather not-so-good. And I do have to say that I get rather annoyed when I see players who don't have an ounce of arpen on their stuff roll need on it.

Melee DPS go into a heroic, see a melee DPS trinket drop and roll on it. Them being ignorant about relative EP values for their class or latest EJ theorycraft doesn't make them !@#$%^bags. To someone with, say, a blue trinket this is quite possibly an upgrade, even if it's an Enh Shaman or Ret Paladin, in which case this trinket being BiS for your class doesn't actually matter. Nor do your guild's demands matter; they're not in your guild, and probably not even on your server.

Therefore, I can't see the reason why a tank shouldn't roll a need on this, all the more since it's a BiS for most classes until they've reached the arpen hardcap.

A bloody tank rolling on bloody DPS upgrades is just as much of a bloody crime as the Arms warrior stealing your shield or whatever. If you go into an instance rolling on two roles you're shafting the people that keep within their current role - you're doubling (or at least increasing) your chance of phat lewts at the expense of the melee DPS present.

In fact, you are basically saying that the DPS are undeserving mouthbreathers and that the tank should get first dibs on anything that strikes his magpie fancy. As a tank myself I'm not entirely dismissive of that argument, but don't expect people to like you one bit for it.

Well, whatever, got it after some 3 weeks of farming the instance everyday, and it only dropped 3 times.What seems curious is that some people see it drop on nearly every run they do when others (like me, obviously :p) hardly see it drop at all.

Turns out that random is random. I know, I'm surprised too.

Comentado por 330363

Grim toll can double proc with needle encrusted scorpion but it is very rare. As an arms warrior in berserker fro the extra crit, (around 40%) i got 1 double proc in about 9 minutes.

Comentado por 507347

This thing doesn't have the greatest proc rate, but its beast when it does proc

Comentado por 515392

most ninja'd item ever, :O
amirite.

Comentado por 517109

regarding the MR, lets say the proc chance is 15% on HIT, assuming 1 attack per second.

1 - 5C0 * (.85^5) = .5563

so u will have 55.63% chance to see at least 1 proc with 4 seconds into the fight.

regarding the NES, the proc chance is 10% on CRIT, assuming 1 attack per second, and 50% crit chance.
this is more complicated with crit chance involved.

1 - 7C0 * (.9^7) = .5217

so u will have 52.17% chance to see at least 1 proc with 7 crits. the percentage increases as number of crits increases.

u will also have 50% chance to see at least 7 crits in 14 attacks, that is 13 seconds into the fight since the first attack always starts at time 0 second.

the proc rate of NES is significantly lower than MR.

Comentado por 355985

Went for this for my arms warrior maybe .. 5-8 times before it dropped, and when it did .. the freaking frost tank took it -.-

Yes I went to his server and flamed him ..

Comentado por 515106

Feral kitties may not be quite astonished by upgrading from Grim Toll.

As the idea behind the trinket is to reach hardcap, When you upgrade from GT -> NES, you lower your soft cap.

Hardcap: 1399 (be it 1400 for the sake of calculation)

GT Proc: 612
GT Soft Cap: 1400-612 = 788

NES Proc: 678
NES Soft Cap: 1400 - 678 = 722

GT- > NES upgrade lets you free 788-722 = 66 ArP points which you can use on 3x20 agi gemming.
The eerie part is that, by using NES, your ArP on non-procced cycles will be lower, but you will get slightly higher base agi (+60) on those non procced cycles. This can result in higher Rip + Rake dmg percentages, and lower shred + white attack percentages. Although the feral dps cycle is one mayhem itself, ~~i expect the NES to be favorable over GT on long, non-switching fights.~~

I will update this with a long measured uptime of NES.

UPDATE with Heroic Dummy Tests

1.) NES with normal feral combat behaviour (SR, Mangle, Rake, Shred,Rip etc.)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/li4d1xukpzfpybb2/

NES Uptime: 13.5 %
Min Refresh Time: 52 secs.
Max Refresh Time: 101 secs. (?)
Average Refresh Time: 76 secs

14:48:40.66 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:49:44.43 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:51:25.26 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:52:46.42 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:53:55.62 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:54:47.76 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:55:56.03 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:57:42.69 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
14:59:21.76 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
15:00:26.03 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
15:01:18.65 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws

2.) GT with normal feral combat behaviour (SR, Mangle, Rake, Shred,Rip etc.)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kf51myczqc2wdijk/

GT Uptime: 20.4 %
Min Refresh Time: 45 secs.
Max Refresh Time: 57 secs.
Average Refresh Time: 49 secs

15:49:26.14 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:50:11.90 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:51:06.87 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:51:57.98 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:52:51.80 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:53:41.96 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:54:27.77 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:55:24.83 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:56:11.03 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:57:01.60 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:57:49.87 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:58:35.21 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
15:59:39.90 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:00:26.10 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:01:11.91 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:01:58.53 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:02:45.90 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:03:31.32 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:04:18.61 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:05:05.25 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll

3.) NES with AUTOATTACK ONLY

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mj6y3logxu09ouj5/

NES Uptime: 15.3%
Min Refresh Time: 52 secs.
Max Refresh Time: 82 secs.
Average Refresh Time: 62 secs

16:18:44.12 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:19:41.21 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:20:44.25 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:21:38.90 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:22:40.78 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:23:42.26 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:24:46.10 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:25:48.35 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:26:44.19 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:27:43.24 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:28:35.88 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:29:40.15 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:30:32.78 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:31:31.43 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:32:39.32 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:33:36.68 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:34:52.31 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:35:54.55 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:36:54.05 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:38:09.96 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws
16:39:29.49 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Fatal Flaws

4.) GT with AUTOATTACK ONLY

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/iwqkxu59wveu3x55/

GT Uptime: 19.1%
Min Refresh Time: 45 secs.
Max Refresh Time: 76 secs.
Average Refresh Time: 52 secs

16:53:36.54 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:54:29.16 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:55:15.72 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:56:05.14 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:56:50.92 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:57:39.91 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:58:26.41 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
16:59:29.99 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:00:14.93 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:01:08.41 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:02:24.67 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:03:10.05 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:04:15.18 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:05:06.12 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:05:54.36 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:06:44.26 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:07:31.11 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:08:21.67 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:09:24.72 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:10:19.33 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:11:12.08 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll
17:11:57.88 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED Grim Toll

Comentado por 191235

I've been testing this thing on my DK and in 20 minutes of testing on a lvl 80 training dummy I have not seen ONE SINGLE proc. My crit rate with this equipped is 32%. In most of my tests I had as many as 100 critical strikes and still not one single proc. Is anybody else seeing this?

Edit: In further testing I have found that this trinket is completely useless for any class that is swinging a 2H weapon. The proc rate is ridiculously low. It might be ok if you're DW'ing (rogue, DW DK, etc) but for anyone using 2H weapon this thing is useless. I'm going to hang on to this trinket in hopes that Blizz figures out that it's useless in it's current form and makes some radical change to it, but until that happens it will be in the bank.

Comentado por abrown516

How much passive ArP does that equate to? My crit is 40%, which would mean the proc rate is about 4%, but I don't know how to calculate it from there.

Edit: I got 27.12 for 4% proc, if anyone can check that, I'd appreciate it. :)

Comentado por 84945

Did Blizzard boost the proc of this trinket?

I've noticed it proccing a lot more in raids lately, and then there's this.

"We changed the way PPM procs work to make sure many of the weapons and trinkets did their expected performance in Icecrown instead of proc'ing too much for some specs or classes or forcing players into unusual behavior to try and fish for the procs. This change also affected some older mechanics in the game too such as the Berserking enchant. For the most part the intent is that these systems all proc off of attacks and they are balanced with that assumption.

At this time we're happy with the damage that characters are now doing after these changes, though we'll continue to monitor and adjust damage overall and that includes the proc-based items."

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/22418707360-ppm-behavior-nerf.html

Anyone else felt that it procs a lot more often than before?

Comentado por 458685

After solid 20 clears of this pointless instance I have only seen the trinket drop once...
I can't be that unlucky? Theoretically I need to run it another 20 times just so i can see another non dps class call dibs for their OS?

/spit

Comentado por 223954

proc more? not really. the nature of this trinket is icd bound, not ppm bound.

I will confess the icd now appears to be 40s instead of 45s however. I saw your post and did a cleave test on the IF L80 target dummies and found the smallest interval between proc end and proc begin was 40s:

1/18 15:34:58.977 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:35:08.852 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:36:19.758 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:36:29.758 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:38:07.055 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:38:17.040 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:39:29.852 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:39:39.821 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:40:20.477 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:40:30.462 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:41:10.743 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:41:20.712 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:42:06.571 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:42:16.555 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:43:03.274 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:43:13.274 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:44:25.680 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:44:35.665 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:45:17.540 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF
1/18 15:45:27.524 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,0x02000000030C3EE6,"Dutty",0x511,71403,"Fatal Flaws",0x1,BUFF

C:\apps\World of Warcraft\Logs>perl -we "use strict;my $last=0;while(<>){my @z=split;my @y=split(/:/,$z,3);my $t=$y*60+$y; if(/APPLIED/&&$last){print qq{@{}\n}}elsif(/REMOVED/) {$last=$t} }" nes3.txt
70.9059999999999
97.297
72.8119999999999
40.6559999999999
40.2809999999999
45.8589999999999
46.7190000000001
72.4059999999999
41.875

I do not have the time right now to perform a more exhaustive test, but wanted to quickly debunk the ppm relation as simply being an icd changeover.

Woops. forgot to mention this is with a base 50% (50.11, 45.11+rampage) crit rate.

In reading Damarlielf's post above, I realized he omitted this key detail in his partial parses.

Comentado por 524211

lost this on my hunter to paladin tank in 5k gs gear that didnt need it.

Comentado por 229766

Sorry dude....but you're way off here about GT being better than NES. Assuming your gear isn't complete crap.....you should be hit capped. So the 83 hit on GT is worthless. NES may have slightly lower proc rate...but your getting 114 crit out of it as well. CLEARLY better than 83 hit from GT.

People keep forgetting the other equip stats these trinkets have. Gotta compare everything on them....not just the proc bonus.

MR on the other hand gives you both a better proc and 102 crit.....so I'd agree it is probably better.

Comentado por 531009

Fury warriors beware... Not better than grim toll.

I don't have any math to confirm this but i can tell you everytime i've used this trinket Over grim toll in a raid my dps has lowered. Many will say that in a raid situation NES will outperform GT but i have found this to be false because the PPm and uptime on NES is substantially lower. And if you have mjonnir it's a no brainer, mjonnir is much better than either.The only thing this trinket allows you to do is reach arp softcap easier imo, other than that it's trash.

Comentado por write

10% chance on crit means it isnt ppm. So no, this shouldnt be effected by the ppm change.

Comentado por caskeper

I'd like to say that as a Fury Warrior with ~50% buffed crit, only really doing 5man content and the odd Onyxia/VoA, this trinket has a pretty decent uptime.
Averages at 1 ppm.
It procs faster than what people make it out to, due to the heavy amount of cleaving/whirlwinding.
I guess it's only really fury warriors and swipe spamming feral druids who see this proc quickly, but for those, I'd say it's worth replacing MR / GT with this one, as long as you have ~50%+ crit and don't only fight single target.
And please don't misread this as a "Fury warrior/feral druid item!", as imo all physical DPSers but paladins should roll on it.
This' just a comment on the "this has a crappy procrate" - deal.

Comentado por 484023

After like 40 runs today i finally got this. I have somehow decent gear i believe and have almost 60% crit unbuffed and i can be soft cap for arp with just changing only 2 agility gems to Arp gems. currently this is my gear . I read ppl comparing this with other trinkets from Thorim HM and naxx but the thing is does any1 have any clew if this is better than greatness ? I know they are giving different stats but even spreadsheet says its better for me. Im not sure though . It would be awsome if some1 could check my gear and give me a proof that its actually logical to go for this instead of greatness
Thanks in advance

Comentado por MarkusF

The reason they don't list proc chance and ICD is because then Blizzard cannot silently change these anymore without notifying its users :-)

Comentado por 538487

With 61.02% unbuffed crit, this trinket is well worth it for a SV hunter with all the crit it provides, not to mention arm pen. That is, until you get Whispering Fanged Skull http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50342

Comentado por 111622

Finally, a trinket I don't have to raid for.

Comentado por 347921

Weapon: Tyrannical Beheader
Weapon Speed:3.07 (115/3.51% haste)
Arms Warrior, only using auto attack

Trial 1: 1:51 = 37 Hits
Trial 2: 1:06 = 22 Hits
Trial 3: 1:12 = 24 Hits
Trial 4: 1:36 = 32 Hits
Trial 5: 1:46 = 35 Hits
Trial 6: 1:55 = 38 Hits
Trial 7: 0:51 = 17 Hits
Trial 8: 1:46 = 35 Hits
Trial 9: 2:04 = 41 Hits
Trial 10: 0:34 = 11 Hits

So add all the hits together you get 292. Divide that by 10 because of how many trials there are. 292/10=29. Which means theres an avg. of 29 hits per proc. Multiply that by 3 because of weapon speed, makes 87. Turn that into time which means an avg. of 1:27 per each hit. So this trinket is worth it for the most part in my opinion.

Comentado por 264264

If you're healing or tanking and this drops you shouldn't roll on it without atleast asking "Can I roll for offspec". This is about the only item that dps that really need this lose to healers or tanks. It's at the point that it is retarded and very inconsiderate. Just keep that in mind.

Comentado por 29595

Internal CD is 45seconds, And proc chance is stated to be '10%' i got a somewhat tough time believing this, I'm a hunter who shoots atleast 10 shots at the dummy within 5-6sec, it still takes me atleast 20-30sec more than the 45sec internal to proc this, is it on when greatness procs aswell or what?

Comentado por 306084

To naysayers who say abyss crystal > the game console for Arms PvP arena (and you can't get RS or GT-which are better): In addition to the 35ish crit you have on your gear (assuming 4 set pvp and 1 arp and maybe boots, belt, or bracers with high arp) You'll get a 25% crit bonus on charge-> mortalstrike (35+25=60% crit) and 50% bonus to overpower (your main burst attack: 35+50=85% crit)
Lets say that your average healer or dps has 1100 resilience, reducing crit chance by 12ish%
48%crit on charge mortalstrikes and 73%crit all overpowers.

My thoughts on arena and NES:
In most cases: pick your target and throw up a charge, hamstring, rend, mortalstrike, overpower, and as soon as you get a crit that procs NES (make sure that you have at least 6 seconds of MS remaining and 3 seconds of hamstring(or piercing howl) and if you don't fear being cc'd one last overpower)-> bladestorm. When you come out and the healer isn't dead, you'll have a few seconds to overpower reapply mortalstrike(just in case) and Sudden Death. Remember that if he starts to run away strafe to get him in charge range which will stun and repeat.

Q: But Daxon, I don't get to use the Juggernaught perk that often!
A: Yes, you do, or you're doing something wrong (not putting enough pressure on the healer so he stands in one place) or something very right (he's always hamstring'd or already dead). When your target begins to range you, you'll want to strafe away if you're not already in charge range which will stun him and allow you to hamstring.

Q: I don't have cruelty- I have last stand instead.
A: The NES is probably not for you, but you can always try to switch for recklessness while on a healer in between TFB procs to give 3 guaranteed crits. On MS, Sudden Death procs and perhaps a heroicstrike* if you are ragecapped. I like to wait out overpower to the end of its proclife while using recklessness until I've used 3 attacks(not bladestorm) because overpower usually crits anyway and as long as you time it right you don't lose it.
*I don't use slam in arena for the small potential to be interrupted and stunned. Next to never use heroic strike or cleave because you are probably never rage capped except after a bladestorm. If you've just switched to berserker's for recklessness you aren't rage capped unless you've just done a ton of white damage or popped bloodrage. If people are bursting on you and you're rage capped, you'll switch to def stance and shieldwall, spam revenge and potentially a shield block,ss for enemy buff reduction but probably just revenge- or if they stopped attacking and gave up, throw a rend on, and hit your charge macro(which of course moves you to battle stance and then charges-repeat above).

Ok sry a bit too much specific information on arms arena. Again Get Runestone (RS) if you can over NES or perhaps Grim Toll (GT) to get you near the hard cap.

Comentado por 523179

If ArP was needed a bit more for Frost DKs (it's good now, but a chunk of our damage is spell-based), this would be more brilliant than it is now, because Killing Machine as well as dual-wielding means a whole crap-bunch of crits.

Comentado por yournerro

Its pretty good trinket..but never drops...i was in FoS about 20x but it drops only 1x and stole it MAGE!

Comentado por Fallerup

you can't really complain what people do in a random heroic, chances are that you'll always find people that are unfair. Needing on orbs when decent policy is greeding and needing on epics just for vendoring and other idiotic stuff. If you really want something, run the instance with your friends or guildies. I've seen ppl needing on BoE stuff just so they can sell it, I've also kicked people for it. Speaking of which, the hilt thing, I always say everyone needs to need on it so its fair, its worth alot of money and noone will believe you in a random if you say you need it for use.

as I said, you want something badly, run the instance with your friends and guildies.

Comentado por 384399

I'm a hunter who shoots atleast 10 shots at the dummy within 5-6sec

No you aren't, and your crit isn't at 100%, so expecting a proc regularly within that timeframe is ridiculous.

Comentado por 559214

There is NO way the drop rate on this item is 13%. It has to be more like 4%. Even the tooltip says the drop rate is "Very Low, between 3% and 13%". Did they change it or what? I'm on my 38th run.... only dropped once and went to a hunter who said it was her 48th run...

Comentado por 150027

First, this appears to be a contradiction:

There is NO way the drop rate on this item is 13%.

...the tooltip says the drop rate is "Very Low, between 3% and 13%"...

This seems to justify that it could be 13%.

Next, wowhead.com reports it at 13% based on (as of this post) 24896 trials. That is a healthy amount of trials and is far more reasonable vs your 38 trials.

Finally, killing the boss and seeing it drop in only one of the 38 trials with a 13% success rate would not be unheard of.
Since the events are independent we can use the probability mass function to discover the probability of this event occurring:
b(x; n, p) = * p^x * q^n-x
where, x = # of successes
n = # of trials
p = probability of success
q = probability of failure

= * .13^1 * .87^37
= 38 * .13 * .87^37
= 0.0286
~ 3%

So the probability of a person running it 38 times and seeing it drop once out of those runs is about 3%. When you consider that thousands of players run this dungeon every day, that 3% is a significant number of players, unfortunate players like you.

And on the other side of the curve there will be players who see it drop constantly and claim the probability is much higher than 13%, but of course in either case a lot more trials (like those supplied on wowhead) can give much more accurate data.

Good luck, and I hope it drops again for you soon.

Comentado por 432980

Fully raid buffed this trink is up A LOT of the time.

Comentado por 562307

Hi ! I'm a feral druid.

Nobody talk about the critical dot proc.

Do you know if this item can proc on a critical dot ? (I've ~55% crit chance on RIP for example).

Comentado por MarkusF

Well, I ran it 27 times and didn;t even see it yet drop ...

Changes of that happening are 0,87^27 and that is less than 3%. But of course I could just be unlucky :-)

Now, why I think it is lower than 13% is that the first few weeks wowhead listed it as a 15% chanceeven though it had thousands of drops.

I think - as so often - Blizzard changed the droprate to something a lot lower, but wowhead doesn't reset it takes time to sink ...

I saw Essence of Suffering also drop only once (the frst run after it no longer was an upgrade :-) ) and that is listed also as 13% ...

So the altermative being still that I'm just being very unlucky ...

Edit: So after 27 runs without even seeing it drop, the 28th time it did and I got the achievement Needy... :-)

Comentado por deusduce2

I think we are all forgetting a few important things to take into consideration. First and foremost NES drops in a 5-man heroic instance and MRS drops in a 10-man heroic (hard mode) raid. Second, even though the item level is higher on the NES it is entirely possible that Blizzard intended these two items to be roughly equal with the slight (very slight) edge going to the item that is harder to obtain via a much more difficult raid. Because of how quickly people are progressing through the content Blizzard releases it is really not that far fetched to see them put items in the game that are a little easier to get and have close to the same quality statistics as previous raid items that very few people are currently looking for due to higher raids available.

In short it equals out to who already has it, who is willing to run an older raid at a more difficult level for it, and ultimately how much of a benefit it is to that class/character at that time. On my hunter NES is very valuable in getting her past the soft cap of 700 ArP due to it’s proc (regardless of time up and everything else), and aside from achievements and just plain experience I am not terribly interested in running Uldar on any difficulty since I am now 25 man ICC geared.

Comentado por 566720

I've ran HFoS 30 times now & have only seen it drop once. PUG group and I unluckily got into one with a guild from another server, they all need rolled on it.

Edit: Dropped twice now, a DK rolled a 100. >.<

Comentado por 338833

Some say it's easier to get but I must admit that I've already given up on this thing.
32nd try some minutes ago and I've seen it drop once. That's when I lost the spirit.
More chance at getting either Deathbringer's Will or Death's choice :<

Comentado por deadbeatffs

Hi guys! Could you please tell me when i should switch this trinket and softcap arp for a hardcap arp?
With all arp gems i have about 1100arp, but that results in the loss of agility. Should i socket gems with arp to the full as to reach 1400 number, but not earlier?

Comentado por 505931

A tip to anyone going for this item. When you get into an instance, just ask who will be rolling on this item if/when it drops. If enough people are going to roll on the item, then just leave. If you know that a paladin is going to roll on this item, then leave. You're not being a *!@#, you're saying that you've had enough with idiots. If you don't want to compete with people rolling on this, then leave. Find a group where you're the only one who needs it. Why should you stick around with a group full of idiots just to lose the only item you need? It's your choice, and you can do whatever you want.

Comentado por 437541

I would have had this if the crappy geared warrior tank wouldn't have needed for his fury spec.

Dear Blizzard,

ONLY ALLOW PEOPLE TO NEED ON SPEC THEY QUEUED FOR!

Ronic

Comentado por 424512

How exactly is this for a Ret Paladin vs Mirror of Truth?
(yes i know arp isnt optimal for me but if its an upgrade ill take it)
the crap Proc Chance/Bad uptime have led me to belive that its not quite as good
but it has a ton more static Crit

Comentado por 263396

For anyone who might be browsing these comments in a state of despair over not having this trinket, here's a couple thoughts for you to consider:

This trinket is not going to make or break you.
This trinket farm is nothing compared to this, this and this. Forge of Souls is a 20-minute faceroll that resets daily.
Tanks and healers took part in the run just as much as you did. If they can need roll, it's within their rights to do so. If you start raging, whining and lecturing, what does it accomplish? Should they win, congratulate them. If you can't leave with the trinket, at least leave with your dignity.
Blizzard has stated previously that trinkets are intentionally made difficult to obtain. An excellent trinket in a 5-man isn't going to be a 25% droprate. With some persistence, it will be yours, eventually - and, like all loot, you'll soon forget why it was such a big deal to have.

Comentado por Janrela

So much rage on such an insignificant piece of equipment.

Comentado por shadow7778

I just want to say that I've read all the comments on the page, and in all honesty that guy that said for DPS to kill themselves for losing this to a healer or tank made me lol. But, I just lost it to a healer, not even a tank. Coming from the standpoint that I've done this damn instance every day for the past three weeks, only to see it drop the first time and lose it sucks. Its frustrating. And I know, the healer was as much a part of the group as I was, but a DPS that actually needs the trinket should get it, not a healer that is only rolling for an offspec that they most likely never use. Flame all you want, just my opinion.

Comentado por sunsmoon

I'll stop asking DPS to give tanks their loot when they roll need on it, then. I'll also start rolling against tanks for tanking loot whenever it drops for my plate wearers/druid.

You see, when you go and take loot that is not your main spec (which, for all intents and purposes, is your queued spec), you tend to frustrate a lot of people. That then manifests itself in taking loot that isn't for THEIR main spec, despite someone in the group needing it for their queued/main spec.

If you want this trinket for your DPS spec, please either queue as a DPS or form your own groups to get this. As it stands, you're making a killing off me because I'm paying tanks for chain heroics when my normal tank isn't online.

Anyone saying tanks/healers can't do H FOS more than once a day are clueless. Once dungeons reset, queue specifically for it. Afterwards, queue for randoms. You have a chance (albeit a small one) to get into H FOS again. I've done as many as four H GD in a day while piggybacking on instant tank queues in an attempt to get additional H FOS runs. I've gotten H FOS twice (one random, one not) after sitting through the 20+ minute DPS queue.

As a tank (or healer), you hold significantly more control over your dungeons. You can queue with three dps friends and get near instant queues, guaranteeing you DPS loot (depending on who you bring). There's almost always a DPS interested in heroics, especially with a tank or healer. Me, as a DPS? Well, I need to locate one of a very small handful of tank or healers and get them to join my group so I can get instant queues. If I go with three DPS, we still have our 15-20+ minute queues. Or, I can pay a tank (or healer) for near instant queues at 50g/person.

Show a little bit of mercy and compassion. Maybe even step into our shoes for a bit. Experience the 15+ minute DPS queues, the bitterness that comes with a tank/healer taking DPS loot and going "lol it's a dungeon bro" when they don't understand that you have to set aside a large chunk of your time for a chance at the drop. Then, and only then, do you have the right (in my eyes) to roll against me on loot that is rightfully mine by role.

I was the shadow priest in BC that respecced to Holy and did Gruul every reset to get DPS their DST, despite not needing anything from the instance (and being sick of it). I was the prot paladin alt that tanked the first half of BT so you didn't have to 'waste' time on a raid night clearing bosses up to Sharaz to get a Skull of Gul'dan/Memento/Warglaives. I was the prot paladin alt that tanked 4timed ZA every other reset from ZA release until 3.0 and never got a warbear on her main (or alt!). I've always set aside time (and things I've wanted) to help others. Care to do the same for me for a measly trinket for my main?

Comentado por 582243

I have done the instance 41 times now and I still havent got this trinket yet :/
How many times did you need? Is there any one who has done it more times than me without getting any trinket?

Comentado por 450260

There are plenty of dps who have a tanking offspec - when you only have 2 or 3 tanks in a 25 man (all of whom tend to be fairly well geared), there's often a lot of tanking gear that drops that gets given to any warrior, paladin, or DK in the raid rather than letting it get sharded. You also have more tanks needed for 2 or 3 10 man groups than for 1 25 man group, so you'll also find some people tanking a 10 man, and then dpsing in their guild's 25 man. For the first month or so (or more if your guild progresses slower) after a raid comes out, tanks will be getting geared up, but after that, the gear either goes to offspecs or gets sharded (sharding tanking gear is especially common in 10 mans).

Plate dps have the choice of either choosing a pvp spec for their other spec, or choosing a tanking spec for their other spec (or heals as well in the case of Paladin). I've seen some people go with two pve dps specs, but its quite rare. For players who don't pvp, but wear plate, the logical use of their offspec is to have a tanking spec that gives them a much quicker queue for the daily and allows them to use all this gear that they get handed in raids.

As for druids, I've seen a few feral dps druids tank in full dps gear and tank spec (with ~35k health in bear form) and do quite well. And I'm glad that they've used their 2nd spec for a tanking spec, rather than for a pvp spec. It saves them time, and it makes my queue time shorter as well.

If you're a paladin, DK, Warrior, or Druid, and you don't like tanks or healers rolling on this against you, then you should get a tank or healing spec. If you're a hunter or rogue, then you just gotta befriend a tank or healer in your guild to get the quick queues.

If people who dps'd in raids didn't get tanking or healing offspecs for the selfish desire to give themselves a much quicker queue for their daily heroic, then you'd find your time as a dps in queue would be much much longer. Instead of spending 10-15 minutes in queue, you'd probably be spending 20-25 minutes, and the players you would have tanking or healing for you would be much less geared as well.

Given the current ratio of dps to tanks and healers for 5 mans, we need more incentives for tanks and healers to decrease the average queue time that dps face. Not letting someone who's using their offspec to tank or heal roll on gear for their mainspec is a great way to encourage them to not even bother with helping cut down queue times for dps by being a tank or healer rather than another dps.

If you whine about a tank or healer rolling on this, I hope you always get stuck with the tanks and healers who have never been in a raid and struggle through heroics, and never get to do your daily heroic with a geared tank who does dps in his guild's 10 and 25 mans who can just zip through the daily heroic.

And yes, I know for saying this, I will probably get ranked down. Truth hurts sometimes.

edit: And I don't mind dps rolling need on tanking gear - I prefer it when wannabe tanks get geared up while queueing as dps, rather than trying to tank 5 mans when they are nowhere near geared enough for it. 5 mans where the tank isn't the guy with the most health never end up going smoothly.

Comentado por 586029

I ran the instance on my Rogue for this trinket 13 times before i saw it drop...and of course I needed it and was outrolled by a hunter. I ran it twice more and got the loot on my 15th attempt. Keep the faith my friends. It does drop and it does help. To all those who have commented on this trinket being inferior to others of its kind. Please consider this:

What is the oppurtunity cost of farming this trinket as oppose to others? Sure you only get one attempt a day but, you can queue in the dungeon finder and accomplish other tasks while you wait (i.e. questing or harvesting mats). Plus the run is extremely easy. If you want the Ulduar trinket you're gonna have to find a lot more people to get a raid together and may have a lower chance of the loot even dropping. Just something to think about.

Comentado por 545453

I got this trinket on my 40th run of h fos. My guildie got it on his 1st. Random is random. Also, to all you mm hunters out there, this is the best trinket you can have under Death's Verdict and Whispering Fanged Skull. Save your emblems and buy something other than the Herkuml War Token. It'll be useful (maybe) when Cata hits, but until then, try for the above mentioned trinkets after you obtain this lovely armor pen piece.

Comentado por marc1404

got his today on my retri pala dk was going mad at me an said arp is no good for palas but if u look on the tier 9 legs it has arp on then so in ur face dk

Comentado por 604508

I've read a ton of comments about this trinket and how "horrible" it is, especially for Rogues. I did my own testing tonight using the addon Proculous. Auto-attacking a test dummy for a good 20-25 minutes it lists it as a 0.99 PPM with a 51 second CD and a 13.68% uptime. Understandably it's not an ideal trinket to have when the rest of your gear is from ICC, but it's not the devil either. It's actually better than what I thought it would be.

Comentado por Tr1viUm

I did a few tests on a heroic training dummy with 34% crit. Mjolnir Runestone did more damage than Needle-Encrusted Scorpion. I would rather have Mjolnir Runestone over Needle-Encrusted Scorpion because resilience also decreases the chance to crit thus it decreases the uptime of Needle-Encrusted Scorpion. You should only consider using this trinket for raids as you may get up to 50% crit with buffs.

Comentado por 283513

got it on the first run in just 2 guys, druid-bear and druid-tree.
muhahah

i`ll be putting this pretty triket to good use vs plates...

Comentado por zulmas

I wander about one thing, NES gives 114Crit ... that's a lot imo (like 5 gems!). I'm using NES and the MarkOfSupremacy, my hit = 457, so I think that I don't need the MarkOfSupremacy because I'm overcapped by ~190 HR. What do You think about using a pair (2x) of NES? 228 Crit (almost 5%) and more proc uptime ... can 2 NESs stack?
I'm MM with unbuffed crit over 50%. Zulmas@Bronzebeard

Comentado por mistadabolina

got it on my 15th kill! now i read that it aint that great for combat rogues? :(

to bad i sold my greatness card so i can't do some tests on a dummy

Comentado por 250843

Healers and tanks feel free to roll on this, u have to do the &*!@ty jobs no1 else wants to, u have the right, NAY! the duty! to roll on this item to ^&*! off dps.

Uve probably spent the last 20mins carrying them, its the least they could do for you. :)

Comentado por 457186

This trinket is a huge pain in the arse to get....
I've been running Forge of Souls daily since it was released and never once seen it drop.

It's almost as bad as the axe from the last boss in Pit of Saron. Took me weeks to get that friggin thing.

Blizz just loves to make it hard as crap to gear melee dps....

Comentado por 450409

Farming FoS on my hunter, so far ive killed the last boss 29 times, and yet it still hasn't dropped.. Sure sure, 13% for lucky people -.-

Comentado por 418624

I got this because my party at the time was 3 casters and a Paladin. I am a Survival hunter, since my gear isn't good enough to switch to MM, nobody else had much use, so it went to me.

Is this decent, for a Survival spec hunter(I'm nowhere near the passive ArP cap.) , or is there better choices out there considering the bulk of my damage is fire damage, which ignores armor anyways.

Comentado por 307579

After 49 H FOS runs I finally obtained this on my Death Knight. 13% drop rate? No way! But hey, at least it finally dropped! Prior to getting it I've only seen it drop once and Ret Pally won it :(. Don't give up!

Dorkknight - Anub'arak

Comentado por 242686

A paly outrolled me on this trinket..(I'm a hunter) =/

Comentado por 479779

Lost the need roll on this to a Boomkin, but then they inspected me and said i needed it much more, and gave it to me. Definitely low drop chance.

Comentado por lock101

Well dropped for me again today as a fury warrior and again lose the roll to the tank, 2nd time now, blizz needs to fix it where they can only roll on tank items, like how they have it where you can only roll on plate, cloth, leather, etc... Depending on the class.

Comentado por 98621

Yeah it is summer time which mean the clueless are out in droves doing the awesome elite 1200dps riding on the backs of the capable people who have a clue, and rolling on stuff they have no business rolling on..........so this trinket is really good for MAGES? since when?.....spell penatration not armor penatration stupid casters.....as far as I know this trinket is for (USEFUL) hunter=ranged it mentions and all melee dps class, not a stupid scrub mage who should fell lucky to even see the inside of this dungeon.....1200dps whatever....As a fury war I would like to choke this person.

Comentado por 620897

Yeah....this pretty little trinket finally drops last night so I was excited! 6k gs dk dps leaves, mage dps leaves so then I'm excited about winning this one to replace my blue trinket I've had for the longest time....then our pally tank rolls NEED on it and wins! Didn't bother to talk about it since I was hanging around for it and obviously needed it! I began collecting tank gear and I usually ask to roll on things for off spec if no one NEEDed. So annoyed.

Ah well.....back to the grind....

Comentado por 506082

Seems like ALOT of people want this trinket for themselves. Been in this place on my feral kitty probably 25+ times and its dropped about 5 times. Every-time its been ninja'd by some tank or healer for their off-specs i'm assuming. Blizzard really needs to make a better system for these random dungeon finders so that offspecers cant roll for things that arn't strictly for their mainspec unless no-one else needs it.

Comentado por revolutionsz

After running this for 20 straight days, I have only seen it drop 4 times. All times, I have lost. Twice to dk's, both for offspec too, A rogue(even though we both had the same rolls, they still gave it to him, thanks blizzard!) and a enhancement shaman that felt like replacing his green trinket, even though this has absolutely no use to him. Awful drop rate.

Comentado por Anathelia

Why, given the nature of mobs throughout the game, is this a Needle-Encrusted Scorpion and not a Needle-Encrusted Scorpid? That's what I really wanna know.

Comentado por 187014

When you are at 719 armor pen, this trinket lets you reach the cap of 1397 on proc. It's a good idea starting out to get to this amount unbuffed and start saving other pieces for a passive ArP capped set. Also, if you're worried about how little this thing procs while hitting a dummy it procs waaaay more often in raids.

Comentado por 5456

Ran this place for the 17th time today. Still haven't even seen it. As a sub rogue I can clearly say I NEED THIS DAMN TRINKET!

Comentado por Woyruu

Dear paladin colleagues, don't even HINT at rolling on this if there are any loot-crazed DPS warriors (and other classes who benefit from ArP the most) around. I said I might roll need on it since I'm hit capped and other trinkets just _won't_ drop and I found myself in Dalaran wondering how did I get there. Then I read the chat: "You have been removed from the group."

Comentado por Brasso

After 47 Devourer of Souls kills, I finally got this trinket. I've seen it drop only maybe 5 times before, and lost it (as a feral DPS MS) to a ret pally, enh shammy, and a blood DK, along with other classes.

Winning the trinket is pure catharsis.

Comentado por thesandman87

Well after 60 or so runs finally got it, beat out a druid for it on my hunter. Replace Pyrite Infuser. Justice was done for me at least, that kitty only did 500DPS while i was doing 6k and the just able player won it. And before anyone say's that kitty likly was undergeared, he had 2PC T10, he had Crafted Legs and Boots, Emblem Chest, hands and Belt, Emblem Cloak, MOS, and Ocra Hunters Harpoon. HE was better geared than me.

Comentado por Alican

A heads-up. The system that determines if players can roll on this item only sees "114 crit rating" and not the armor penetration at all. This means that anyone can roll on it. Last time I (Arms Warrior) went in with a Rogue, a Resto Shaman, a Protadin and a Moonkin. The Scorpion dropped and everyone (Warlock, too) needed on it. The Moonkin won it and insta-left.

fffffuuuu-

Comentado por Aszun

I don't really have much luck for trinkets with my hunter, with a 5.6k GS and still using mirror of truth/Mark. I turn to this place when i get saved to all the raids. 46 times I've been here and no luck. Literally 46 times. 46 Devourer kills. I've lost the trinket to almost every class/spec. And that's just my hunter, my DK has been there 21 times, and my rogue 15. I don't have the trinket on any character. That's over 80 times with no luck. I think I really am going to go insane running this place over and over. It wouldn't be so bad if I could get a raiding trinket.

Comentado por 659874

This dropped twice for me in 24 hours. I stayed up and waited for the raids to reset at 2am, and sure enough, it dropped a second time.

Earlier that day, outrolled by an enhance shammy.
Later that day, outrolled by a DK who needed both things that dropped.

I'm a hunter, so I guess the people who won it had just as much right to get it. But I'm so glad I didn't lose it to a shadow priest as mentioned earlier.

Have been 80 about a month now. Oh well, I guess in my lament I can just say 'it won't matter come Cataclysm' -- but even Cataclysm will have its own NESs that are needed by 1-3 people in a 5-man.

//qq out.

Comentado por 384758

I love this one :-) took me ages to get it for my blood DK -_- but it's worth it :-) when this kicks in i get 75,81% arp. this combined with my 33.57% crit i can do a lot of damage.
(edit because of wrong %)

Comentado por Gimroth

I wouldn't say this trinket is reliable. On extreme occasions it takes over 45 crits for the effect to proc, which is a killer for 2h wielders.
IF it's supposed to have a 10% proc chance of crits, the liveliness of the number isn't held up as would be expected. Since it has a long ICD (45 or 50 sec what is it), it could take a long time for two procs to follow one another.

I'd prefer Mjolnir's Runestone as it should have a much better uptime (since it doesn't rely on crits).

Comentado por Mairin

With the removal of ArP in the 4.0 patch the proc on this is now being changing to +haste rating (still 678 rating and 10 second duration).

Comentado por 505500

Is this still good for a fury warrior to have?

Comentado por 245717

The drop-chance for this trinket was already extremely low, and now Blizzard has made this trinket far more appealing to a lot more classes...

As a rogue, who is hard pressed to find any decent pre-raid trinket, this is grim news. After 24 FoS-H runs I've seen it drop today, and it got snatched from me by a paladin.

I know, Cata is soon to be here, and the most epic drops will be replaced by quest greens, but this is really annoying.

Comentado por obiwaynekenobi

As of Patch 4.0.1 this trinket went from being mediocre at best to being extremely good for Retribution paladins thanks to the ArP turning into Haste.

Comentado por Vivii

Saw this drop for the first time for me today (unholy/frost DK) and didnt even realize that it had dropped. I only noticed after the group asked me if i needed the trinket (was using MoT + Pyrite Infuser).
Probably the only case of non-ninjaing on this item.

Comentado por 369490

Excellent for those Haste loving classes, but now you can gain Herkuml without having to wait on drop rates, this could easily slot into spot 2, especially for Rets.

I have this in the wings with my Herkuml and MoS, soley because the hit on MoS is still necessary for me to be capped =S.

Comentado por 149687

Did the drop rate change for this since the patch. My rogue has run it 19 times and only dropped once and the healer got it.

Comentado por Crype

Blizzard really needs to change who can roll on what trinkets... Lost this to both a mage and a shadow priest... Let's just say I was NOT a happy camper after that...

Comentado por 695871

Seems like a "neverproc" item. Does anyone know the proc chance of this?

Comentado por 620139

Pretty sweet piece for any dual wielder. Got this on my frost DK while JP farming. The buff is called Fatal Flaws and it procs reasonably often. This paired with Símbolo de Guerra Herkuml is a must for any dual wielder preparing to raid.

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